24 Responses to “Retrofit Contest – Week 3”

1. Jimage Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 8:45 am

   Taking out the lives aspect is a great idea. Reminiscent of Jill of the Jungle, and that game was greatly enhanced, IMKO, by allowing you to play a level as many times as you needed to get through.
2. Dave Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 10:21 am

   The only new level that I think absolutely *must* be included is “Button-Controlled Missiles” by juang. This is possibly the best Jetpack level I’ve played (and I’ve probably played over 1000). Brilliant idea and nice execution; I really like how juang explores the missile controlling mechanic fully. I also like how there are extra rockets in case you screw up; forgiveness is something a lot of other levels lack. It seems like many designers try to make their levels as hard as possible (my old levels were like that too). Although having said that, I did have to kill myself because of the one-way brick wall; also, the last two gems can be a tricky and dying at the exit is no fun. So maybe it needs a little bit of polishing, but I would really like to see that level used.

   …Ok, I just realised that you were refering to the *original* levels that you wanted to include. Regardless, Button-Controlled Missiles is a great level. Anyway, in regards to including original levels – personally, I don’t see any reason for recycling old levels. Maybe there could be a game mode where you can play all the old levels, but it would be nice having a whole ‘campaign’ consisting entirely of new levels. Mixing old levels with new ones would likely end up with a disappointed “oh this level…I’ve already beaten this” reaction.

   Having 10 levels per zone seems good though. I’d say 20 is too many. Maybe also ditch bonus levels, instead of this why not have a really awesome level at the end of each zone. And the very last level of the whole game should be the most amazing/awesome/challenging level and possibly quite a hard one too (but not insanely hard). The final level should be something that gives the player a huge amount of satisfaction after completing it. This is in contrast with the actual last level in Jetpack, which to me, was boring and ultimately pointless – ‘why do I need extra lives now!?’

   I’ll post some more thoughts on level design later, when I get around to it. I’ll also send you some new levels I’ve been working on soonish.
3. Adam Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 10:59 am

   I think the average player will either be playing Jetpack for the first time, or may have played it a bit in the past but won’t remember most of the levels like a hard core fan would. And this is a remake after all, so I think it makes sense to include the best of the original levels (with enhancements). That gives me an idea, maybe I’ll post all the original levels I’ll be using so people can enhance the originals if they have any ideas.

   I thought button-controlled missiles was a great idea too. I’m always impressed by these new ideas from limited game mechanics.

   I like bonus levels if they have a skill aspect, like risking your life for more treasure, or the lotto idea someone had. That might be a fun level genre for someone to take on. The rules for bonus levels should be: mostly treasure which is risky to get, but completing the level is relatively easy if you don’t have the guts. We’ll probably need another 10 of these.

   Here’s how I’m picturing the zone idea unfolding:
   A new player has 2 zones available, probably a choice between a cave/brick zone and an outdoor/nature zone to hook different types of players. Both zones would start with beginner training levels.

   A typical zone would look like:
   level 1: introduces the theme/story/main antagonist
   levels 2-9: varying styles and skill with some signs of progression toward a final goal
   level 10: the hardest / boss level
   level 11: bonus level
   on completion, unlocks another zone.

   By “story”, I’m talking about a visual story, the only text would be level titles. The best way to explain this is to make it, so I’ll have to post a playable example when the engine gets to that point.
4. Dave Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

   A ‘visual’ story via level design and graphics modules is a good idea, but might be hard with multiple people working on levels.

   Maybe have the bonus levels not count as ‘actual’ levels. So instead of being World 1 Level 11, it would be World 1 Level BONUS, just a thought.

   I still don’t really agree with using old levels. But anyway, ironically my favourite of yours would probably be Fuel Shortage. There were several others that I thought were quite good too, mainly the maze/labyrinth type. Levels I did not like were the gratuitous video game homages (and there were a lot of them). Also, I really like your two new levels! Both are very easy, but both are very nicely done. My only gripe is the hidden area behind the exit.
5. ventuz Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

   That level 31 from old jetpack should make into next game, it’s genius.
6. Joseph Collins Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

   Re: ventuz
   I agree! That’s technical genius at its finest. X3

   So about those tutorial levels in “me_1.zip”… I think those are really good tutorial levels! Those are definitely less “Hello, you don’t know anything about anything” levels (like the ones I submitted) and more “Welcome to Jetpack! Let’s ease you into things with a little practical application, huh?” Looking at Level B: The Teleporter though, I kind of agree with Dave in that the pass-through wall directly behind the exit may not be the best idea. There’s no other pass-through walls anywhere else in the level, so arbitrarily throwing that in as a path to the treasure doesn’t make a lot of sense from a technical standpoint. But if it’s expected that a player would return to that level once they KNEW about pass-through walls, then I suppose that makes sense.
7. Brien Beattie Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

   I generally like the infinite lives/colllectable statues idea. Same goes for the all treasure is obtainable. I’ve looked through my levels and considered what sort of effect those conditions would have. For many (such as my two “Maze of Lost Treasure” levels) it works great. Others aren’t quite so geared that way (such as my “Macro Jetpack” level where you have to choose between gems or treasure because you don’t have enough fuel for both).

   One thing I think would help is if we could place the statue between squares. Consider my level ARCHTECH.JET. The perfect place for a statue is right above the door. However, since there’s only to be one statue, it would be nice if I could center it over the door.
8. InsaneJetman Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

   Okay, so I can’t figure out logged in via facebook and regular. Anyway last comment was me too.

   Looking at your ‘maybe’ list, I consider 2 (“The Marble Worm”) to be a classic level and should definately be included. 10 (“Ice Cavern”) is also a good one which I would include. The following I would also say ‘maybe’ too:
   3 (“Ride the Snake”)
   31 (“Double Wormage”)
   39 (“Golden Pyramid”)
9. Amorphous Says:
   February 27th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

   I think the idea of cloning original levels is silly, because judging by the followers of this blog, the core group of players will be those who’ve played the original Jetpack before. I’d rather see community-made remixes of/sequels to the most memorable original maps. And even then, just a handful thrown into the mix, maybe a “flashback” zone reserved for them. The references will be there as well as fresh ideas. I think a sequel to a classic game that’s been played to death deserves both. Heh, incidentally, I was just crafting A-Mazing 4.

   The pacing sounds fine to me, but it’s hard to speculate without anything to actually play yet. I’m with you on how the story doesn’t need to be a driving force, as the abstract arcade playstyle is largely what made Jetpack so great. A good game can convey a story even without words.

   Also, Orig-68 (Here We Go Round), Orig-69 (Treasure Chest) and Orig-97 (A-Mazing 3) are totally my favorites from the original set. Each has a polished design and effective use of hazards.
10. Jojo Says:
    February 27th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    “I think the idea of cloning original levels is silly, because judging by the followers of this blog, the core group of players will be those who’ve played the original Jetpack before.”
    Well, I guess there’s no reason for people who don’t know Jetpack yet to read this block, or do you see one? I guess when the game will be made public, many people will come from other websites and have never played the original games. Plus, it might still be interesting to play a few of those classics!
11. Jojo Says:
    February 27th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    heh, late at night… “who read this block” = “who read this blog”…
12. Amorphous Says:
    February 27th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    I see your point, but it still seems so redundant, especially when the original game is freeware and anyone can easily try out the classic levels in their original context. There’s some unused potential in a lot of them, and since there will be new gameplay elements in Jetpack 2, it’d be a shame not to see the logo and marble worm levels reworked with modern standards.
13. InsaneJetman Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 2:01 am

    Okay, I got in an argument about what exactly “All treasure in a level must be gettable.” means. I commonly make it possible to get the treasure, but if you do then it’s impossible to complete the level. I figured that meant that it wasn’t ‘gettable’. Could you clairify? Also, if you’ve any suggestions about what should be done with “Macro Jetpack” if indeed most of the treasure in it is not ‘gettable’.
14. Adam Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 7:26 am

    Yes that would be a problem, Macro Jetpack isn’t one of the ones I picked though so don’t worry about that one.
15. Jojo Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Do you have any plans for making randomly popping up items customziable? I think the level author should be able to decide whether jetpacks or stunners can pop up randomly.
16. Adam Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I just added my current graphic choices to this post.

    Jojo: Hopefully I’ll have time to make that customizable.
17. Denilson Figueiredo de Sá Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    I know that “graphics sheet” is still a work in progress, but those teleporters still need some work. Also, what are those tiles just above the teleporters? Are they the switches? If that’s the case, I think they should be (slightly?) reworked, because currently they don’t look like switches. Maybe something like a “lever switch” is more recognizable as a switch.

    Oh… And that coin? Is it going to be rotating? If that’s the case, then it will get even more attention than the gems, and the gems are the main objective of a level.
18. Robert Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    I also think level 31 should make it, and I’m also a bit of a fan of level 10. Since that was the “maybe” list, would that mean that you have already chosen other original levels to be in the game? I went through the game and picked out my favorites – some, I liked more than the others, and some, I just thought had something in them that was really worth benig included in the game:

    6, 8, 10, 31, 33, 46, 51, 56, 58, 59, 70, 92, 95, 96

    I think 10 and 31 are the only two here that were on the maybe list. My personal favorites are popcorn(95), donkey pack(33), double wormage (31 – just because it’s so cool), and chutes and ladders(8).

    How many levels do you think there will be total in the game? Will it be 100 like the original, or will there be more? I think if you’re keeping 50 of the original levels, there should be 150-200 levels (well,…over 100, I guess).
19. Robert Says:
    February 28th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    oh, and I almost forgot. I think there should be more switch/barrier colors and maybe even more colors of teleporters. I’ve sometimes found myself wishing that there were some more of these things when making levels or just when coming up with ideas for levels.
20. Dave Says:
    March 1st, 2010 at 1:03 am

    @Adam – those graphics are saved as a jpeg, could you show us what the graphics will actually look like, saved in a lossless file format?

    @Denilson, yeah spinning coins would be quite distracting, I assume the animation occurs after you collect the coin?

    About how many levels there should be in the game, I would say as few as possible. Quality over quantity. I’d much rather play 100 great levels, than 200 levels of varying quality. But if you can find 200 great levels, then go for it, but don’t sacrifice quality for quantity.

    I would say an example of a game that valued quantity over quality was Chips Challenge (149 levels). There were some great levels in that game, but there were also many, many awful filler levels. But take Braid for example, there were only 39 levels, but each level was well thought out and contributed something importrant to the game.
21. Adam Says:
    March 1st, 2010 at 7:07 am

    I replaced it with a higher quality JPG.
    The coins may not spin, I’ll have to see how it looks in a level. But its so cool looking!

    The switches definitely aren’t done. I love those teleporters though. Also I was thinking of flashing the teleporter light at your destination teleporter, except that would ruin the lotto idea.

    Also the bricks look horrible when previewed in a level right now so those will get a lot of changes.

    I’m not sure on the total number of levels but we’re at about 130 good ones right now. The original Jetpack did have a lot of filler levels :/
22. Adam Dobay Says:
    March 1st, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Hey guys,

    In general, I love the new graphics’ current outlook. Generally, I think that the original game’s graphics are great. The core of what each block does is represented in its design, and the design itself is tight and good-looking. I think that overall, the core concepts of what makes those designs work should be kept intact (eg. the uniqueness of the rocket design or the push in-pull out wall switch, both discussed below), but when you’ve got the core concept that doesn’t make the end result the same. To explain what I’m talking about, this is the same as the Die Hard rule in film: the first Die Hard film, at its core, is about John McClane resolving a personal relationship struggle with his estranged wife, while facing physical obstacles to do so in the form of the terrorists. The second Die Hard film copies only the form elements: physical obstacles that keep the hero from achieving his goal, but the core that drives the whole plot, has been removed, resulting in a weaker film. This is true for games or any creative endeavour, if you know what made your original design (whether a plot design, a game design, or, in this case, a graphic design) work, use those core elements to create a new version, don’t just copy or remake the form as that often results in losing some or all of what made the core work.

    In light of the above, here’s a few thoughts on specific graphic elements:
    - The spring and marble looks great. I really love them. The rocket looks less appealing than the original, it’s more like a military rocket now while the original rocket had some unique style with it being a bit more rounded, had a bit of depth, and its animation was like it was dancing around. It was nothing like the rockets in shoot-em-ups, which had rockets more similar to the current design. So I would prefer something closer to the original design because of its uniqueness.
    - I love the column, the door, the box and the purple block. I’m wondering about the brick, I liked the colour tone similarity of the two brick sprites in the original. The similarities signalled that these two have similar functions but differ in some way. The colour tone change as well as the sprite’s difference in the thickness of the material, on the other hand, helped the player further in differentiating between the two and emphasizing their functions.
    - I like the gem, although for level design purposes I would like it more if there were two kinds of gems, one in the wall and one on a pedestal. I also like the gold items, and second the idea that the coin could remain static but do the twirl when you collected it. Depends on how it looks in action.
    - I’m not sure about the jetpack’s red. It doesn’t feel like a jetpack. The original jetpack was outstanding in the design because of its full white colour, now it’s very close to the design of the button sprite. Also, looking at it, I didn’t know what kind of object it was. I would go for a green or blue colour, perhaps green for half tank and blue for a full tank.
    - I like the teleporter pods but I wouldn’t attach those poles to it. They were better off as just pods IMO.
    - The button on the floor looks good, but as others have said the wall one needs work. Again, the original wall button was really smart in the was that it actually looked like something you push in or pull out. I would return to that concept and create something new based on that.
23. Robert Says:
    March 1st, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    It would also be nice if there could be more monsters per level. Sometimes I have even had to get creative to make the best use of the small (well, it isn’t TOO small) maximum number of monsters… :/
24. Jojo Says:
    March 2nd, 2010 at 7:35 am

    Speaking of limits: I hope that the “too many teleporters” bug won’t be present in the remake anymore… LOL

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